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Dáil Debates & Questions
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February 16 2010 Dáil Debates Parliamentary Questions
DÁIL DEBATES Deputy Brian Hayes (FG): It is an disgrace that the Minister for Education and Science is not in the House to take this important matter, which was been raised by three of the four Members representing Dublin South-West. This matter came to the attention of the House both last week and the previous week. We are dealing with it in a serious way but the Minister for Education and Science is not present. That speaks volumes. The loss of ten teaching posts and between eight to 12 SNAs from St. Joseph’s Special School in Balrothery, Tallaght, will make it impossible for the school community to exist. What has been put forward by the National Council for Special Education is nothing short of a butchering exercise on the part of a quango that has been asked to do the dirty work of the Minister for Education and Science. Many believe that the current review of SNA provision nationally is nothing more than an exercise in cutting back support to the most vulnerable children in our education system. Specifically in the case of St. Joseph’s, I am asking the Minister for Education and Science to hold off on the impending removal of four SNAs from the school on Friday next, 19 February. I am also asking him to hold off on the removal of a further four SNAs by 12 April. I request that he and the NCSE work out a solution to this issue. The Minister for Education and Science has the power to stop this madness. I ask him to visit the school in order that he might see, at first hand, the work of the school community. I also want him to see the profound educational disabilities that effect many children in this school. In such a school environment, teaching and care resources can make all the difference. The Minister’s decision to effectively demolish the resources of this school make a mockery of the alleged commitment that is afforded children under the Education for People with Special Educational Needs Act. This is an Act the Oireachtas that is now frozen in time.Taken together the impeding loss of SNAs with the possible reduction of ten teaching posts from the school represents an outrageous loss of essential teaching resources. It is implied that many of the children in this school could function perfectly well in mainstream school settings. This is patently untrue and is nothing short of nonsense. The NCSE has made it clear to the school authorities what exactly it requires in respect of documentation. The Minister should now order new psychological assessments if he considers that the information supplied is incomplete. The arguments surrounding documentation supplied to the NCSE constitute nothing more than a red herring. I and my colleagues demand a stay of execution. I reiterate that it is an a disgrace that the Minister is not present to take this matter. Deputy Pat Rabbitte (L): I understand that, in the current climate, it is necessary to make both savings and cuts. However, it is indefensible to suggest that those savings and cuts should be made on the backs of the most vulnerable in society. I intend no disrespect to the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, when I agree with the assertion on the part of Deputy Brian Hayes that the Minister for Education and Science should be present. I sincerely hope the Minister of State will not read out a script supplied by the Department of Education and Science which mirrors the contents of a letter I received earlier today from the Minister for Education and Science. The relevant sentence in that letter reads, “There is absolutely no question of SNA posts being removed from schools where they continue to meet the scheme’s criteria”. It is the latter phrase which undermines any value the letter might have. The NCSE is going to find that St. Joseph’s does not meet the scheme’s criteria. As the principal in the school has made plain, it is not possible to measure mild learning disability merely by ticking one box. There are many factors that constitute learning disability in these circumstances. This school has an outstanding record. The parents fought over the years to make it the type of school it is today. It is unthinkable that the Minister should intervene in the middle of the school year and impose cuts like this. I join with Deputy Brian Hayes in pleading with the Minister to defer consideration of these cuts until there is an opportunity to sit down with the Minister, because it is the Minister and not some quango who has the power — by making one telephone call — to stop this from happening to St. Joseph’s Special School at Balrothery in Tallaght. Deputy Charlie O’Connor (FF): I welcome this opportunity to join my colleagues in raising this Adjournment debate. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his courtesy in the matter and the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, will not be offended when I state that I too am disappointed and upset that the Minister was not able to be here. The matter I put before the Ceann Comhairle sums up my views on this issue — I call on the Minister to postpone and review the decision of the special educational needs organisers of the National Council for Special Education on the teaching posts and special needs assistant allocations at St. Joseph’s Special School at Balrothery in Tallaght, which is in my constituency. I will not repeat what my colleagues have stated. We have all been to the school and we have known it for a long time. The Gallery is packed, which is very unusual at this time of night. Teachers, parents and pupils are particularly concerned about this difficult situation. It is very important to emphasise the point that has been just made. I cannot get my head around why anybody, and certainly a professional body, would take a decision to cut staff numbers — if that is what is proposed — in the middle of a school term. I cannot get my head around it but perhaps more experienced colleagues might be able to do so. One of the points made to us all by the principal on behalf of the school community was that they remain willing to review their mission, to look at the education needs of the area and to respond in a co-operative manner and that it would be much less difficult to achieve this if the threat of drastic staff reductions were removed. Irrespective of what the script of the Minister of State says, that is the message we want to get to the Minister, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe. These decisions should be parked and reviewed and I ask the Minister to carry out that investigation and to respond to us in a positive way. Deputy John Moloney (Minister for Equality, Disability and Mental Health): I apologise for the fact that the Minister cannot be here this evening and I will read the response on his behalf. I thank the Deputies for raising this issue as it gives me an opportunity to clarify the position on some of the matters raised. The Deputies will be aware that the Department requested the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, to review all special needs assistant, SNA, posts because it had become clear that a number of SNA posts were in schools where the care needs of the pupils in the schools concerned did not justify such an allocation. The NCSE, through its network of special educational needs organisers, SENOs, is at present carrying out a review of SNA allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria as outlined in the Department’s Circular 07/02 governing the allocation of such posts are properly met. SENOs are communicating the outcome of the review directly to schools as the review progresses. The allocation for any school and any adjustments to that allocation depend on a number of factors such as the number of pupils with care or medical needs leaving, the number of new pupils with such needs and the changing needs of the pupils. It is expected that the NCSE will have completed the review by the end of March. St Joseph’s Special School is a designated school for children with mild general learning disability. I understand that the school has 89 pupils enrolled and a total staff of 20 teachers and 17 SNAs. The NCSE commenced a review of the SNA allocation in St. Joseph’s in October 2009 and the results of the review were confirmed to the school on 8 February 2010. The NCSE has advised the school that it is to reduce the number of SNAs by four and that this should be achieved by 19 February. The NCSE has also advised the school that it will not alter the level of teaching staff in the school for the remainder of the current school year. The NCSE is committed to engaging with the school authorities and all other relevant State agencies to manage the situation in the short term and to ensure a sound basis for staff levels in the interest of pupils. I understand the NCSE intends to meet with the school authorities shortly in this regard. The Department has already indicated to the NCSE that it is prepared to attend a meeting with the school if this is considered helpful. I understand also that the NCSE is arranging to meet with parents individually in consultation with the school authorities. I want to emphasise what is really important here. The terms and criteria for the SNA scheme have not changed. Where the criteria justify, additional posts are being allocated. However, where the criteria are not met, there may be a reduction in an SNA allocation. There is no question of posts being removed from schools where they meet the scheme’s criteria. However, there is also no question of posts being left in schools indefinitely where they are deemed to be surplus to the care needs of the pupils. The Deputies are fully aware that the Department has prioritised the provision of special education supports to schools. This is a key Government policy. However, this does not mean that resources allocated in response to various historical factors are retained in schools adinfinitum. At a time of constrained resources it is essential that we ensure that public resources are deployed as effectively as possible. Resources left in an area that are not in accordance with criteria mean public resources are not available for another deserving area. I am sure that the Deputies share the Minister’s concern to ensure there is a consistent application of policy on the allocation of special needs supports throughout the country and this is all that is happening at present. The Department can assure the Deputies that supports will continue to be made available to schools which have enrolled pupils who qualify for such support, and children with special educational needs will continue to have access to an appropriate education in line with the Department’s policy. Schools will continue to be allocated additional teaching and SNA support in line with current policies. These policies have not changed. With regard to the role of special schools, the National Council for Special Education expects to be in a position shortly to provide to the Department a copy of the research it has commissioned concerning the role of special schools and special classes. Ultimately, it is expected that advice received from the NCSE will assist the Department with policy formulation on the role of special schools and special classes. The Department is anxious that the skills and expertise these schools have accumulated in supporting children with special educational needs is utilised to best advantage in providing for such children. The Department looks forward to receiving the report from the NCSE. PARLIAMENTARY QUESTIONS Deputy Róisín Shortall (L): asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, in compliance with the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disability, Article 11, he will ensure that issues of disability will be included in all aspects of planning and relief through humanitarian intervention. Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Micheál Martin): The Government fully recognises the importance of ensuring that the specific needs of people with disabilities are taken into account in all humanitarian planning and programming. Our approach is entirely consistent with the provisions of Article 11 of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which relates to the protection and safety of persons with disabilities in situations of risk, including humanitarian emergencies. In such situations, people with disabilities may, for example, encounter specific difficulties in accessing services and support. They may face additional risks as a result of dislocation and displacement. They may be overlooked in the provision of assistance as a result of the breakdown of their usual social support networks. In some cases, humanitarian emergencies not only increase the vulnerability of people already living with disabilities, but add to their number, through serious injury. The recent devastating earthquake in Haiti, for instance, has resulted in at least 1,000 amputees, with many others suffering serious long term injury. It is important to recognise that experience has shown that people with disabilities, and indeed disaster-affected populations more generally, are remarkably resourceful in the face of emergencies, developing their own coping and recovery strategies. Our approach, as a donor responding to humanitarian emergencies, is to make sure that our assistance is channelled to projects and programmes which encourage and support these coping strategies. Internationally, the agreed professional standards for humanitarian action in crisis situations, such as that in Haiti in recent weeks, are clearly set out in a document known as the Sphere Handbook. These standards were developed through an extensive global consultation process which began in 1997 and drew on the expertise of more than 400 Non-Governmental Organisations, UN agencies and academic institutions. They are based on the obligations under international humanitarian, human rights and refugee law. The objective is to ensure that the needs of vulnerable groups, such as people with disabilities, are taken fully into account in all emergency programming. Ireland, through our overseas aid programme, funded this initial consultation exercise. We are also supporting an ongoing review and update of the standards. In the context of Ireland’s assistance to the people of Haiti following the earthquake, Irish Aid has emphasised to all agencies the importance of ensuring that the needs of people with disabilities are taken into account. The Irish Aid technical team which I asked to travel to Haiti in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake has reported on its assessment of priority needs at this stage. The team specifically identified people with disabilities, including those wounded in the earthquake, as a vulnerable group in need of particular attention. I was pleased to note recently that, as part of the operational coordination mechanisms on the ground in Haiti, a sub-group on disability has been established. I believe that this will help focus additional attention on the needs of people with disabilities in Haiti. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh (SF): asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when he expects to be in a position to publish the preliminary observations of the recent visit to Ireland from 25 January to 5 February in 2010 by the committee for the prevention of torture investigating conditions of detention in prisons, and examining the safeguards in place in Garda stations and also the findings of their investigation of the conditions in psychiatric institutions and an establishment for the intellectually disabled; Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): The Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, which operates under the aegis of the Council of Europe, was established under the European Convention for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment in 1997. The Committee visited Ireland for the fifth occasion from the 25th January to the 5th February, 2010. The CPT submits a formal report of its visit to the Irish Government, which is subsequently published along with the Government’s response. The timing and content of the publication of the observations of the Council of Europe’s Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is a matter in the first instance for the Committee itself. The Committee made an oral presentation of its preliminary observations at the end of its recent visit to Ireland and indicated that it received excellent cooperation both before and during the visit. The CPT issued a press statement on the 9th February indicating the places visited during the visit and to the best of my knowledge this will be the extent of their public communication on the visit until later in the year. The Committee has advised that it will submit its detailed report later this year and seek a written response from the Government. As the Deputy and the House will be aware it has been the practice for Ireland to request that the Committee publish simultaneously its observations and the State’s response. Deputy P. J. Sheehan (FG): asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of persons in receipt of domiciliary care allowance; the number of persons in receipt of domiciliary care allowance caring for persons who have been diagnosed with ADHD; Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): Due to staff action currently being taken, I regret that I am unable to provide the current statistics on the information sought by the Deputy. However the latest data available would indicate that approximately 25,000 people are in receipt of Domiciliary Care Allowance. Of those claims that have the child’s disability recorded; circa 6-7% have the disability listed as either attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD. Deputy Michael Noonan (FG): asked the Minister for Education and Science if his attention has been drawn to the work in respect of children carried out at a school (details supplied) in County Limerick; if he will give a commitment to retain the full staff complement of seven teachers and 16 special needs assistants at this school; Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): I assume that the Deputy is referring to the review of Special Needs Assistant (SNA) allocations currently being carried out by the National Council for Special Education (NCSE) through its network of Special Educational Needs Organisers (SENOs). The NCSE is an independent agency with responsibility for determining the appropriate staffing levels in relation to the support of pupils with special educational needs in mainstream and special schools. The NCSE, through its network of SENOs, is at present carrying out a review of SNA allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria governing the allocation of such posts are properly met. This is an exercise in identifying surplus posts which are in the system and which do not meet the current criteria — posts that have been retained when a pupil’s care needs have diminished or where the pupil has left. All schools have the names and contact details of their local SENO. Parents may also contact their local SENO directly to discuss their child’s special educational needs, using the contact details available on www.ncse.ie. I have arranged for the details supplied to be forwarded to the NCSE for their attention and direct reply. I wish to assure the Deputy that supports will continue to be made available to schools which have enrolled pupils who qualify for such support and children with special educational needs will continue to receive an education appropriate to their needs. Deputy Paul Gogarty (GP): asked the Minister for Education and Science the rationale used in the reduction of staff levels from 16 to six and special needs assistants from 17 to seven at a school (details supplied) in Dublin 24; if his attention has been drawn to the effects this will have on the school’s ability to provide the full primary curriculum, junior certificate, leaving certificate applied, further education and training awards council or indeed operate at all due to health and safety issues; the guarantees that are in place to ensure that all of the vulnerable children in question will continue to have similar high standard of education with parents from Tallaght and Clondalkin areas; if he will meet the staff and parents to discuss ways to ensure that such children will be protected at a time when education was largely protected in the budget under the revised programme for Government; Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The Deputy will be aware that the National Council for Special Education (NCSE) is an independent agency with responsibility for determining the appropriate staffing levels in relation to the support of pupils with special educational needs in mainstream and special schools. The Deputy will also be aware that the NCSE, through its network of local Special Educational Needs Organisers (SENOs), is at present carrying out a review of SNA allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria governing the allocation of such posts are properly met. This is an exercise in identifying surplus posts which are in the system and which do not meet the current criteria — posts that have been retained when a pupil’s care needs have diminished or where the pupil has left. The NCSE has advised the school in question that it is to reduce the number of SNAs by four and that this should be achieved by 19th February. The NCSE has also advised the school that it will not alter the level of teaching staff in the school for the remainder of the current school year. The NCSE is committed to engaging with the school authorities and all other relevant State agencies to manage the situation in the short term and to ensure a sound basis for staff levels in the interest of pupils. My Department has already indicated to the NCSE that it is prepared to attend a meeting with the school if this is considered helpful. The NCSE is also arranging to meet with parents individually in consultation with the school authorities. The Deputy is fully aware that I have prioritised the provision of special education supports to schools. This is a key Government policy. However, this does not mean that resources, allocated in response to various historical factors, are retained in schools ad infinitum. At a time of constrained resources it is essential that we ensure that public resources, both staff and resources, are deployed as effectively as possible. Resources left in an area that are not in accordance with criteria mean public resources are not available for another deserving area. I am sure that the Deputy shares my concern to ensure that there is a consistent application of policy in relation to the allocation of special needs supports across the country. This is all that is happening at the moment. I can assure the Deputy that supports will continue to be made available to schools which have enrolled pupils who qualify for such support and children with special educational needs will continue to have access to an appropriate education in line with my Department’s policy. Deputy Paul Gogarty (GP): asked the Minister for Education and Science the reason some special needs assistant posts are already being earmarked for removal, even though the review has not been completed; Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The Deputy will be aware that the National Council for Special Education (NCSE), through its network of Special Educational Needs Organisers (SENOs), is at present carrying out a review of Special Needs Assistant (SNA) allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria governing the allocation of such posts, as outlined in my Department’s Circular 07/02, are properly met. This is an exercise in identifying surplus posts which are in the system and which do not meet the current criteria — posts that have been retained when a pupil’s care needs have diminished or where the pupil has left. The NCSE has advised that the review will be completed by end March 2010. Given that a number of the NCSE decisions relating to the review were taken in very close proximity to the end of the last school year, the Department of Education and Science was concerned to allow schools some time to put transitional arrangements in place for pupils whose care needs had diminished. It was agreed to allow schools keep these (diminishing care only) SNA posts until the end of last month — 31 January 2010 — to facilitate transitional arrangements. There is no basis for these arrangements to continue. All schools have been fully aware of the review for a number of months at this stage and should have been making appropriate arrangements. SENOs are communicating the outcome of the review directly to schools as the reviews progress. There is no question of SNA posts being removed from schools where they continue to meet the scheme’s criteria. However, there is also no question of posts being left in schools where they are deemed to be surplus to pupils’ care needs. Resources left in an area that are not in accordance with criteria mean public resources are not available for another deserving area. I wish to assure the Deputy that SNA support will continue to be made available to schools which have enrolled pupils who qualify for such support. Deputy Tom Hayes (FG): asked the Minister for Education and Science the number of special needs assistants that were made redundant in south Tipperary on 29 January 2010, or in the weeks preceding or following that date; when an audit of special needs assistants was agreed by his Department; the rationale of this audit; the provision that has been made for children previously being assisted by special needs assistants and who will now have to be educated without one; his views on schools being left without any special needs assistants; and if children’s outstanding applications to be assessed for special needs assistants are being delayed by this audit. Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): My Department became aware of increasing evidence that a number of SNA posts were not being used in line with the SNA scheme criteria. The National Council for Special Education (NCSE) was requested by my Department in February 2009 to arrange for its SENOs to review SNA allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria governing the allocation of such posts are properly met. There has been no change in these criteria and the review is being carried out by reference to those criteria. SENOs are at present carrying out a review of SNA allocations in all schools with a view to ensuring that the criteria governing the allocation of such posts, as outlined in my Department’s Circular 07/02, are properly met. This is an exercise in identifying surplus posts which are in the system and which do not meet the current criteria — posts that have been retained when a pupil’s care needs have diminished or where the pupil has left. I wish to assure the Deputy that SNA support will continue to be made available to schools which have enrolled pupils who qualify for such support. The NCSE continues to process applications for SNA support from schools. There is no question of SNA posts being removed from schools where they continue to meet the scheme’s criteria. However, there is also no question of posts being left in schools where they are deemed to be surplus to pupils’ care needs. Resources left in an area that are not in accordance with criteria mean public resources are not available for another deserving area. I am arranging for the specific information sought by the Deputy to be compiled and issued as soon as possible.
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